1977 Coleman Concord Roof Rebuild

Discussion in 'Roof/Floor Repair & Maintenance' started by Lucy FJ55, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    I have been slowly rebuilding an old Coleman pop up while also enjoying camping in it with my family over the last few years. This has been a slow work in progress.


    Here's a link to my 'rebuild' thread here on the Portal. >>>http://www.popupportal.com/index.php?topic=51875.0




    The next big chore will be to repair the roof. We purchased the pup knowing the roof had suffered hail damage and was no longer waterproof. We've camped with it this way for several years, and of course every time we go camping, it rains and then leaks. Not a lot of fun, but we've still enjoyed the pup.

    Anyway, it's finally time to remove and repair the roof. I have been researching the process in this forum and elsewhere and will do my best to include pics and tips I may learn along the way. I'd appreciate any advice folks may have as well.


    To start, I had to unbury the pup once again. [:D]

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    It's been beautiful weather for weeks, and looked to be sunny and warm for the extended forecast. I finally have some time to work on the roof repair. I moved it out of the garage and parked it in the driveway to make room in the garage for the roof.

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    It then promptly down poured that evening and all that night. SMH. [LOL]

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  2. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    The other day I prepped the roof, carefully removed the canvas, and built a table in the garage to support the roof while I rebuild it.

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    Roof is ready to be removed, I just need some help from a couple friends... [:D]
     
  3. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    Here are some pics of the ceiling/roof damage...


    Ceiling- Vinyl has all been removed, some luan/ply as well, electrical is all torn out, and all screen door hardware is missing.

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    Roof- Hail damage throughout, missing center seam/trim, layers of old caulk as well. Most of the hail damage is superficial, however some dents have corroded into holes/leaks. Leaks at center seam and other seams as well.

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    Fun times! [:D]
     
  4. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    WOOOOT! Finally got help from a buddy yesterday morning... we removed the roof and set it on the table I built in the garage. It's go time. [:D]

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  5. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    First I finished peeling the luan/ply off the styrofoam. I was surprised to see a couple thin metal strips running along the roof. These were quite rusty. Seems the strips must have been used to hold the screen door hardware up on the ceiling.

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    I also found a wood frame for I assume a vent... but my pup doesn't have one. I believe the framing must be standard from the factory? Curious if anyone knows anything more about this/seen this before?!

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  6. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    OK. Sooooo, that was a chore. Just finished scraping all the styrofoam off the underside of the aluminum yesterday. Started the night before with just a couple different types of putty knives/scrapers, but I didn't get far...

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    I then remembered folks using an oscillating tool for this exact task. I figured I'd splurge and get one at Harbor Freight because it was almost unbearable to continue...

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    ... and this tool really helped! Made a hellish chore manageable. One square inch at a time! [LOL]

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    Fun times! [LOL]
     
  7. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    Here are some pics of the roof almost completely stripped/cleaned. I still need to remove some caulking and then need to use some sort of cleaner on the underside to remove any remaining foam/adhesive. Sounds like folks typically use acetone for that? [?:~{]

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    You can clearly see the hail damage in these pics. So far, I have only found a couple actual holes from hail damage. I don't necessarily mind the hail damage, but since I'm rebuilding the roof, I am considering trying to flatten the dents some and perhaps use bondo for filler. I plan to cover the entire roof after it's rebuilt with some sort of truck bed liner like Herculiner, Grizzly Grip, Raptor, etc. I believe I also have a couple seam leaks as well. [:D]
     
  8. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    Now that I have disassembled the roof, I'm trying to figure out the best way to rebuild it... and I have more questions in my head then answers! [LOL]


    I had originally hoped I could get away without removing or rebuilding the roof. BUT I was afraid if I didn't actually remove and rebuild the roof, that I would be chasing leaks and applying Band-Aids to the mess until I did. Now that I have removed and torn apart the roof I want to be sure to rebuild it to be completely waterproof for years to come. I am not yet sure how exactly I will rebuild the roof sandwich or which adhesives to use, etc.

    For example, I am still debating on whether to use Eternabond vs. butyl tape and in which specific places. I think I will use Eternabond on the center and perimeter seams, instead of using butyl tape. I plan to just re-caulk the corner caps. I want it to last 'forever' and I plan to use bed liner over the entire roof after it's rebuilt.


    Here are some pics for reference...

    What I started with. Old layers of caulk on roof skin...

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    By the way, the corner caps are metal and not plastic. They are in decent shape.

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    Honestly, I would rather not remove the corner caps or disassemble the roof frame at all. I'd like to try to just rebuild the sandwich and install it in the frame. I was hoping to just remove old caulk on the caps, clean 'em up and perhaps add a new layer of caulk along the edges to finish it up. Thoughts?
     
  9. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    Another major question I have is about whether I should reuse the original aluminum roof skin or perhaps replace it with one new sheet (avoiding the center seam altogether). Checking into availability and cost currently for this option. I was trying to avoid removing the aluminum skin, but I now think I'll have to in order to create a solid roof sandwich and to seal everything for waterproofing.

    Now that I removed all the old foam/caulk from the roof sandwich and surrounding track, the aluminum skin is ready to basically pop out.

    New aluminum roof skin or not, I need to decide on which materials/adhesives to use for the roof sandwich. Wondering if I can just use 1" rigid foam insulation with 1/8" ply/luan/plastic sheeting all glued together with the aluminum roof skin? Figure I'll hit up the big box stores and see what they have in stock for insulation and ceiling material. Some sort of caulk for the caps and Eternabond tape for the seams to make it all stick forever. Any other suggestions?



    Here are a couple pics of the old roof sandwich construction/profile, etc.
     
  10. DenWaz

    DenWaz New Member

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    Jul 12, 2016
    Looking good! I am fixing up a 78 Coleman Valley Forge right now. Dealing with some minor roof issues so not doing a full removal. Looking at Eternabond for my center seam but not sure about the corners yet. Amazing how similar my roof is with the pick marks.
     
  11. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    DOH! I forgot to post pics on the last post...


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  12. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    As usual, the original roof sandwich is basically aluminum on top, then styrofoam and luan underneath. The sides to this roof used only luan to tidy up the ceiling/frame. The frame is solid because it is all metal... which is rad. I'm hoping to just rebuild the roof sandwich and toss in luan strips to finish off the sides.

    Here are some pics of the roof frame...

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  13. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    DenWaz- Thanks for the kind words! Good luck on fixing up your old pop up- it's totally worth the effort! These old Coleman pups are quite well built compared to some others I have seen over the years. If you get a chance, post up a pic of your old Valley Forge. I can't get enough of these vintage tent trailers.

    Cheers, Carlos
     
  14. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    I've been thinking more about the original aluminum roof skin...

    Another concern I have is with all the hail dimples that are in the skin and how that may effect the new roof sandwich I need to build. Will the dimples prevent a good bond between the roof skin and the foam insulation below?! Perhaps.

    Makes me wonder more if I should try to flatten out some of the dimples or just opt for a new roof skin altogether. Price and lack of availability may dictate that I reuse the original dimpled roof skin. In which case I should probably work on straightening it out. Any ideas how to best flatten out those dimples?

    [?:~{] [?:~{] [?:~{]
     
  15. edh

    edh Active Member

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    You can flatten the dimples but you might create a leak in doing so; aluminum, esp. if it has been stretched, can crack when you try to form it. You could then fill the dimples with something that would also stop the leak, but if you are filling them anyway I don't think I'd bother with trying to flatten the minor ones, only those that are more than 1/4 inch deep maybe.
    The lesser ones should not affect adhesion to the foam layer, esp if you are using styrofoam, as it compresses easily and should smoosh (technical term) to conform to the aluminum pretty readily. However, if the replacement foam you use is more rigid, it might be worth flattening even the smaller dimples.
    Since you are doing all this work, new aluminum would be ideal as it will look new and won't have seams to leak. But it's pricey (esp. if you have to have it shipped) and more work, as you have to cut and form it, and you would probably would want to paint it. However, if you'll be repainting the existing aluminum then that is a break-even either way. It also likely won't have the dimpled texture that helps hide defects like the factory roof did (at least I haven't been able to source any). If you are used to metal work or like an adventure and are cool with buying a new tool or two, it might be the way to go.
    Another option would be to flatten and/or patch the dimples with bondo or something similar (some like JB metal weld), then coat with a good (i.e. not rattle can) bedliner product like grizzly grip or monstaliner. I am in the process of rebuilidng my palomino roof and will be skipping the aluminum altogether, just using plywood covered with monstaliner for the outer layer.
    Double-sided Eternabond is a good product so long as you are pretty sure you'll never have to take apart whatever two elements it's bonding, as although it can be removed with heat it looks to be a lot of work to do so. Everything else will have to be renewed eventually, but good butyl applied to a well-prepped substrate should last many years so it all depends on your pocketbook and whether you want a ten year camper or a fifty year camper. Good luck, looking forward to more pictures!
     
  16. mau5_h3ad

    mau5_h3ad Member

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    Apr 24, 2015
    Good work so far, like edh, I am also working on finishing my palomino roof. I put together the sandwich a few weeks ago using luon and basic rtech foam. This worked for my application (14 foot roof) as I had built a frame with a few cross members for rigidity. With yours being basically frameless, you may want to consider the pink foam to provide more rigidity. In terms of adhesives I used both the liquid nails foamboard adhesive and the locktite pl 300 foamboard. The liquid nails has a longer setting time, but both adhere very well. Just make sure you get a foamboard adhesive otherwise the other stuff might eat through your foam. Also, looking at your photos, you may want to check the sidewalls to make sure you don't have dry rot that spread to those areas aswell. Better now then later.

    Sent from my SM-N910T3 using Tapatalk
     
  17. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    edh- Thanks for your response! Some great ideas there... I was also afraid I may damage the aluminum more if I try to hammer out all those dimples. Instead, I've been thinking of just skim coating the top surface with bondo or something to make it look decent again and leaving all the dimples alone (just as you suggest). I agree with you, and the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced the dimples shouldn't get in the way of a good bond between the insulation. I'm hoping I can squish the two materials together with heavy objects while the adhesives set and that the foam will hopefully just conform around the dimples. Worse case scenario, I had thought about flattening the largest dimples...

    I am also having a difficult time sourcing large enough aluminum to use just one sheet for the roof. I have found some that I could two-piece together locally, but even that is pretty pricey, and I'd still have a center seam. I'm also no metal worker, but I'm not afraid of a challenge and I LOVE to buy new tools. [:D]

    BUT then you mentioned you were not even going to bother using the aluminum skin, and instead you plan to rebuild using plywood. Hmmmmm, I can do that to. I hadn't even considered not using aluminum for the roof. I am still thinking of using bed liner over everything, so why not use plywood?! I'm a little nervous about additional weight due to the bed liner, added plywood, etc. I'll be mindful of this while deciding what thickness ply to use, etc., but I may go this route instead. Probably could only use up to 1/4" thickness due to weight.

    I have also wondered about using the roof to haul light stuff, but wouldn't even consider it before the way it was originally built. Using plywood would also lend to other options for storage on the pup roof or to hang stuff (like additional storage or ?) from the ceiling inside the pup. It would be great to be able to travel to/from camp using the large roof space to haul kayaks, or?!

    As far as adhesives, etc. I think I'll go with Eternabond for all the seams, and then bed liner over it all. I really don't want this thing to leak again anytime soon. Still trying to determine which insulation to use and which adhesive to use. I have several sheets of 1" rigid insulation in the garage already (leftover from an old project) that I would love to use if possible. It's polyisocyanurate... not sure if folks would recommend using it or if i should go find something else?
     
  18. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    mau5_h3ad- Thanks for your response! I really appreciate you mentioning specific adhesives and foam board to use. I was checking into the local box stores this weekend (Home Depot and Lowes) to see what materials and prices they both had. I noticed the 'R tech foam' and thought it would work well. I have read I need to choose adhesives carefully depending upon what materials I use, etc. so knowing that Liquid Nails Foamboard and Loctite PL 300 Foamboard are recommended specifically for foamboard applications is useful. Now I know which adhesives to use with which insulation/foamboard. I may just go this route...


    As far as the roof side walls, the entire roof frame is made of aluminum. It's quite strong and well designed and thankfully, no rot! There was no sandwich or ply on the roof side walls originally. There was just a thin layer of ply with white vinyl stretched over it, same material as the ceiling (not sure exactly what it's called). I ripped it all out. figured I'd replace it with the same material I use for the ceiling. It slides into 1/8" grooves in the roof frame. Pretty simple and slick. [:D]
     
  19. Lucy FJ55

    Lucy FJ55 Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    Here is my current plan to rebuild the roof...


    Roof Sandwich

    I will reuse the aluminum roof skin. Plan to semi flatten/pound the worst of the dents, Gold bondo the rest. I'll use LocTite PL Premium to re-adhere the roof skin within the existing aluminum frame. I'll use 3/4 " R-Tech or Foamular insulation (whatever they have in stock) for the next layer. I'll be adding four cross-roof braces, using 1"x3" wood glued to the aluminum roof skin also using LocTite PL Premium. These braces will notch into the roof frame and not only provide additional support, but also will help keep all layers tight within the roof frame.

    I'll cut foam to fit around the new wood framing/supports. I will place wood supports where the screen door hardware should be on the ceiling. Not sure if I'll ever use the ceiling to store the screen door, need to source the parts and figure out how that all works first. Figure I'd prepare for it and add a couple more supports to the other end of the roof too. Total roof weight will only be slightly heavier then the original with additional braces and bed liner.

    Plan to use FRP panels for the ceiling. Think I'll use Titebond FastGrab mastic to adhere FRP panels to the foam. I plan to add electrical for one or two lights as well.


    Roof Frame/Waterproofing


    I'm thinking of leaving the roof frame alone, and just rebuilding the roof sandwich. The frame is tight and solid, built from extruded aluminum. Corner caps are metal. Not many places for it to leak either.

    I could drill out all the rivets, remove the corner caps, then caulk/Eternabond under and around them, BUT I'm planning to cover the entire roof and frame with a bed liner. Wouldn't it work well to just leave the frame alone
    since I'm covering everything anyway? Soooo, I may opt to leave corner caps in place, re-caulk them(for overkill I suppose?), and also may Eternabond the top of the center seam (again, for overkill I suppose?). After the roof sandwich is installed, caulk and Eternabond on minimal places, then I'll roll bed liner over the entire outside of the roof, over corner caps, rivets, bolts, whatever.

    Seems like I've seen several folks do the same, not sure of longevity, but I like to gamble. I'm hoping this will last for many years. [:D]


    Anyone have any questions or suggestions? [:D] [?:~{]
     
  20. edh

    edh Active Member

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    Your plan seems sound. Eternabond over a seam won't be pretty but nobody sees the roof when it's up and it will give you peace of mind and a long-lasting dry camper with less maintenance. If you are using a good bedliner product you should be cry regardless of what you do. Check out the posts here about how others have applied it and be sure to follow manufacture's instructions to the letter and you should be good to go! Will look forward to more pics.
     

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