Boy am I gonna need help with this re-wire!

Discussion in 'Wiring' started by emoney, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. emoney

    emoney Well-Known Member

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    I currently only have the one dual breaker, a 20/15 that you see and by looking at the cover that’s all it’s ever had because the slot on the right side still has the cover. Are you guys saying I need to add an additional breaker? Wouldn’t that mean I have 65 amps or am I missing something? For example if I was wiring the house, the box would have that large, main on/off breaker at the top, but I don’t see this in the camper and that’s what is throwing me a bit.
     
  2. emoney

    emoney Well-Known Member

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    In other words there’s no “service disconnect” in the camper, correct?
     
  3. emoney

    emoney Well-Known Member

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    Also the model says 8725-P
     
  4. emoney

    emoney Well-Known Member

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  5. rabird

    rabird Howdy!

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    Get a 30/15 for the far left slot, the 30A backfeeds the main service to metal buss bar the breakers snap into, at the top of the far left breaker is a screw to secure the main 30A breaker. Adding a 30/15 along with your 20/15 will alow you to spit all your household outlets into 2 cirsuits.

    Do you have a dedicated 20A air conditioner outlet?

    I home ususall has 2 main breakers say 100A each and LOTS of 15 and 20A breakers along with the double ganged breakers for the air conditioning, oven, water water heater ... all the 240v stuff.

    an electrictian could figure this out in seconds or minutes.

    the 20A air c outlet would use larger wire than the 15A circuit.
     
  6. rabird

    rabird Howdy!

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    start about the 11:30 mark
     
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  7. emoney

    emoney Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I'll order a 30/15 for the other slot, making the 20/15 the rightside. Yes, I've got a 20a dedicated AC outlet as well.
    I need to make sure I actually have the larger wire in what they included, if not, I know I can pick that up pretty easily. The manual link (thanks again for that) cleared up the question of which terminal was ground, which was neutral (for anybody 'net searching it's Ground across the top, Neutral along the right side), and I see the breaker clips so outside of that, I'm pretty sure I can trace down all the 120 side.
    Once that's finished, then I'll tackle the DC end of things.
    Oh, one more thing (hopefully the last for today, lol) is there any reason I need to wire the AC into the 30a? Obviously the factory put it into the 20a and all the plugs on 15a, but if it's better then I 'll change it. It will be better having 2 separate plug circuits, in the event something fails I can still charge a phone or run an appliance maybe.

    Sorry for all the questions. I plan to start at daylight on Saturday from the 6-way tow plug backwards. Hoping to
    having lights by bedtime at least. Wish me luck!
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  8. emoney

    emoney Well-Known Member

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    I said that was my last question today, but I lied. I was just reading the Manual over lunch and noticed on the last
    page where it talks about which breaker brands/types to use, it says under "Main CIrcuit Breakers", 'Maximum 25 Aac'.
    Does that mean it can't take a 30 amp breaker?
     
  9. rabird

    rabird Howdy!

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    right above that it sates
    Circuit Breakers - One 30 Aac “Main circuit” and max. of three 20 Aac “Branch circuits”

    30A is back feed by shore power BIG black wire - this gives power to the buss at the top that the breakers snap into.
    20A - black wire, 12gauge goes from breaker to dedicated 20A outlet. You can use this outlet for other stuff beside the air conditioner.
    15A - blACK wire from converter side powers the converter, additional outlet circuit added via wire nut/14g
    15A - black wire to outlets 14 gauge

    The 8725 is 25A 12v DC but still allows for 30A 120v AC input
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  10. roybraddy

    roybraddy Well-Known Member

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    I ran into this same thing when I got my 2008 STarcraft RT14 OFF-ROAD POPUP trailer. It did have a 30AMP Electrical Service box in it but only had two full size circuit breaker slots with one being the 30A MAIN breaker and only one other full size where you could us half-size breakers. Mine had a 15A and 20A circuit breakers in. It also only had 4-12VDC Fuse locations... There was no terminals strip per say and all the wiring came together using those large YELLOW TWIST Connectors etc... What a nightmare... I called it a rats nest of wiring...My 14RT as robust as it was I knew was going to be a keeper for me so my first MODS was to upgrade the Power Distribution Setup and get more Circuit Breakers and ATC Fuse positions.

    I went with the WFCO WF8900 series Power Distribution System which has five full size circuit breaker slots and eleven ATC Fuse positions for the 12VDC side of the panel including two additional ATC fuse positions for the REVERSE POLARITY Battery protection circuit..

    Installing was not as bad I initially thought it was going to be as all of the wires were already routed to the location. Didn't take very long to get converted over a better 30AMP Electrical setup. As time went on I even added a couple more of BLUE SEA DC SUB Panels to run additional 12VDC circuits to my larger battery bank...

    My WFCO 8900 Series Power Distribution Panel looks like this now...
    [​IMG]
    Google image

    The bottom compartment came with a WF8945 45AMP 12VDC converter/charger which I abandoned in place and use a Progressive Dynamics PD9260C 60AMPS Converter/charger which has a great smart mode system multiple DC voltage charging voltages... MY battery bank will be multiple batteries being used...

    Your setup is just for a very minimal 25AMP System setup and I suppose the WF-8725P only has a main 25AMP Circuit breaker installed. You will get a full 30AMP Power source from the various camp grounds so that would be the size of the MAIN BREAKER I would want use.

    I would do what you need to do to get past your first trip but when you get back home I would definitely consider re-wring for a bigger setup.. I was able to get everything I needed from LOWES - A local Hardware store - AMAZON with its two day shipping.

    This is a typical BLOCK DIAGRAM for a 30AMP Power Distribution System most modern day small trailers are using..

    [​IMG]
    Google image

    You need to decide what role you want your Trailer to play...

    My needs for the OFF-ROAD POPUP trailer is to camp OFF-GRID 90% of the time with no Shore Power available... So I will have the smallest DC Current footprint I can have and be able to survive ONE DAY running the things I want to have running when OFF-GRID and then being able to recharge my Battery from a 50% charge state to a 90% charge in three hours generator run time using my 2KW Generator when allowed running the on-board PD9260C 60AMP Converter Charger unit...

    For me it took alot of planning to get to where I am today...
    Roy Ken
    [​IMG]
     
  11. emoney

    emoney Well-Known Member

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    Ok, got it. I'll try and stop by on the way home and see if I can find the 30/15. This question may seem silly, but in these combo breakers, they are technically two stand alone circuits, correct? Meaning, since I have a 20/15, I only
    need to pick up a 30/15 tonight?

    @Roy, I read your thread and how you're kinda like me, a little OCD, and didn't like the "rat's nest". Hopefully when
    I'm done, I won't have one either (fingers crossed). Getting my DW camping is a HUGE step in the right direction, and
    the only time I'll be "off grid", is if I'm also "all alone", lol.
     
  12. rabird

    rabird Howdy!

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    correct, yes
     
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  13. Raycfe

    Raycfe Waterford Ct.

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    You will then have a 20 and 2 15 circuits. Houston we have a problem. Maybe ........ I'm checking something>>>>
     
  14. roybraddy

    roybraddy Well-Known Member

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    I don't know whether that is good or bad hehe... I like to have a GOOD PLAN B to cover the stupid things I end up doing sooner or later...

    So far I have not been stranded yet being 50-60 miles out in the middle of NOWHERE... A few times I have stayed out a couple of weeks OFF-GRID... Must be alittle of MacGYVER know how left in me...

    Roy Ken
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Raycfe

    Raycfe Waterford Ct.

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    An important update .......... The circuit breakers all get power from a common connection. So a 30 main will only work if the black wire from the power cord is connected to the load side of the 30 amp breaker. That way flipping off the 30 amp breaker kills all the power. My oldest son is a journeyman electrician and I just checked with him. The breaker will work wired with the feed on the load side.
     
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  16. emoney

    emoney Well-Known Member

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    That seems logical because that’s where the shore power plug gets wired. It confuses me a little however in that the factory had the sp wire into the 15 amp side since the breaker included was a 15/20? It hurts my brain to think this much on Wednesday
     
  17. emoney

    emoney Well-Known Member

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    Wait, does that mean I shouldn’t get a 30/15 and instead just get a 30? Or do I forget adding one at all?
     
  18. rabird

    rabird Howdy!

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    You are making poor assumptions. It was not wired like that from the factory. A idiot had wired it back feeding 30A shore power into a 15A breaker?

    Stop the nonsense. Back fed breakers are required to be secured and let me repeat the part about the screw that hold the main disconnect.

    Don't want another 15a circuit then get just a 30 for main disconnect or get the 30/15 and have an extra circuit.

    Better yet, hire an electrician.
     
  19. Raycfe

    Raycfe Waterford Ct.

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    You have 30 amps max .......... you could have 10 15 amp circuits .......... you still only have 30 amps max. If one circuit is pulling 11 amps and another circuit is pulling 5 and another is pulling 1 and another is pulling 6 and another is pulling 6 thats 29 amps you are still good to go. Turning on another circuit pulling 2 amps would trip the breaker (31 amps) weather it is in the convertor or on the pole. Or pulling 16 amps on any one circuit will cause that breaker to trip. And the breaker that trips will tell you what circuit it was.
    If you don't have a main breaker in your convertor, the one on the power pole would trip with an overload. That said I would rather trust my equipment than the campgrounds.
     
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  20. emoney

    emoney Well-Known Member

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    I think I’m getting it now. I’m slowly catching on. Now I just need to trace wires. I’ve tracked down the 20 amp circuit thanks to the yellow Romex and that leaves everything else for the 15. Just want to confirm where all these wires lead and then dig in with wrapping it up.

    I’m guessing the water pump was originally under the near dinette seat based on the in/out plumbing. Where do most put the on/off switch?
     

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