Coleman ABS Roof

Discussion in 'Roof/Floor Repair & Maintenance' started by benfrench, Oct 11, 2011.

Have you had any issues with your Coleman ABS Roof?

  1. Yes, sagging, I fixed it ..

    15.1%
  2. Yes, sagging, I got rid of it ..

    4.5%
  3. No, never had any issues ..

    33.4%
  4. Yes, cracking, I fixed it ..

    51.4%
  5. Yes, cracking, I got rid of it ..

    10.9%
  1. time4adventure

    time4adventure Member

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    Dec 26, 2015
    Not the whole interior, just that spot. Yes, it was water intrusion from the ABS cracked and delaminating roof.

    WE were thinking cutting out the section and seeing if we could gorilla glue some of that white board used for showers.
     
  2. Yukon Joe

    Yukon Joe 2002 Colman Niagara

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    Sep 6, 2014
    You also have cracks by the support post. Is the foam core deteriorated?
     
  3. fishboat

    fishboat New Member

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    Sep 22, 2007
    I have a 2000 Mesa and this day has been coming, so it's time to dig into the so far limited repairs that are needed.

    I've read the entire thread and understand the basic process. It sounds like acetone will work as well as MEK as a solvent for ABS pellets. Makes sense as Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK) and Methyl Methyl Ketone (acetone) are pretty much the same thing.

    My question is the same as "skitchner" posted above, and I didn't see an answer to. Specifically, "My question is, should I try injection Gorilla Glue into the bubbles and glue them back down, or just cut the bubbles out, glue the edges and then fill it in with the ABS patch mixture?"

    thanks for any advice..
     
  4. Yukon Joe

    Yukon Joe 2002 Colman Niagara

    128
    1
    Sep 6, 2014
    How big are the bubbles? You could cut them out and repair with the fiberglass cloth and ABS goo.

    I hear Gorilla Glue is messy. Will it melt the Styrofoam core? I've never worked with it,but have read horror stores about it. So, those would be my questions.

    @Yukon Joe :baby: :baby:
    Drive your raptor here!!!!
    www.runraptorrun.com
    ( * Y * )
     
  5. fishboat

    fishboat New Member

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    Sep 22, 2007
    The bubbles I have, with cracks in the middle, are about 4x6 inches. Fairly minor. GG may be a little messy, but I'd guess that's true of many repair routes. I'll mask off the surrounding area & that should help contain any mess. The biggest thing in my mind that GG has going for it is it's a moisture cure urethane..since water has seeped into the cracks..some water-loving adhesive is a big advantage. The water might be removed from the bubble-foam surface by using alcohol as a drying agent with some compressed air blown in, but it'll be tough to get it completely dry..particularly if water is into the foam surface. Seems like the best option is an adhesive that isn't impacted by some water present. I doubt GG will impact the foam..the real question here is whether a urethane resin is a solvent for cured urethane foam..I doubt it..at least within the cure time of the GG.

    Also..does anyone have a recipe for ABS pellets to MEK (or acetone) solvent? 1 part ABS to 2 parts solvent?..3 parts solvent? I'm guessing the dissolved ABS application consistency is peanut butter-ish? or thinner ..Karo syrup like?
     
  6. Yukon Joe

    Yukon Joe 2002 Colman Niagara

    128
    1
    Sep 6, 2014
    I never found a recipe for a parts ratio. That would have been nice.


    Here was my novice aproach:
    I used two old large mason jars.
    In one I put 1/3 full of ABS pellets, then filled it up about 1/2 way with MEK. This turned out to be a mistake. The pellets started to melt together and I had no way to break them apart. Slowly over a few days I was able to get the ABS lump soft enough to stir it and try to break it up. The final result after a week was a organic peanut butter consistency. Soft and a bit fluid. This recipe took a lot of stirring and attention.

    A second mixture I created out of the need to perform a repair before the first batch was ready. I filled the large mason jar about 1/3 full with MEK. I then sprinkled some ABS pellets in and stirred. I did this for a while and over a days time I would add a few more pellets, stir and wait. I eventually had a Karo fluid in a relativity short time. This consistency worked well for the first layer of fiberglass repair. The goo easily penetrated the cloth for a solid bond.

    A few of my lessons learned as a noob to working with ABS / MEK.

    1. Safely glasses are a must.

    2. The mason jar lid gasket week be eaten by the MEK and get into your goo. I started putting the lid on upside-down. It's not a water tight seal, but I didn't shake the jar, or turn it in its side. The vapor loss is minimal and if you really need, you can add more MEK.

    3. I used a scrap aluminum bar I had laying around to stir the goo. The goo would build up and harden on the stir stick over time. However, I could easily peel it off and either save it for later or add it back into the mixture.

    4. It takes time to get the right mixture. Plan ahead and start you science experiment a week ahead of time.

    5. Goo is hard to get of your fingers. Kinda like rubber cement, but worse.

    6. Put down some cardboard on your work bench to create a safe work space.

    Best of luck. Got questions ask. I'm no expert, but I did repair my Coleman ABS roof and I didn't have to spend the night in a Holiday Inn Express. Lol...

    Yukon Joe
     
    Troy_grover likes this.
  7. fishboat

    fishboat New Member

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    Sep 22, 2007
    Thanks Joe..I appreciate your thoughts.

    A couple additional options. From some research it appears GG can be thinned with xylenes (this needs to be confirmed..will do tests). If thinning causes no cure issues then a glue syringe (search amazon) 10ml with a 15g blunt needle can be used to inject GG into delamination spots. I noticed today I have a couple areas of delamination without cracks. I plan to tape these areas over completely with wide blue painters tape, then drill holes into the delam spots, inject the glue, let it cure, and pull off the tape.

    This looks like it'll be a 'fun' project..is what it is I guess.
     
  8. fishboat

    fishboat New Member

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    Sep 22, 2007
    I'm still new to this process & materials..(I don't see a post-edit option) when I refer to GG above..I mean Gorilla Glue..not Grizzly Grip
     
  9. jumpoff

    jumpoff I'm in a camping state of mind

    1,374
    61
    Nov 3, 2015
    North East Florida
    The gorilla grip with baking soda was what I used to fill the small cracks... I think it worked well. The gorilla looked over my shoulder the entire time so I couldn't mess up.
     
  10. time4adventure

    time4adventure Member

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    Dec 26, 2015
    Do you have a picture of how you did this? How it looks.
     
  11. fishboat

    fishboat New Member

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    Sep 22, 2007
    Another step deeper..I've mapped the delamination areas in my roof (2000 Mesa) by the tap test. What's a tap test? It's a standard boat surveyors test..very technical..though effective. I used a 3 x 3.8ths inch solid stainless rod to make a few thousand taps on the roof surface. When the sound goes from "tink" to "thunk"..you've found a delaminated area. Next tap around the area to determine where the solid laminate transitions to a delamination and add a piece of tape. Eventually you'll have an entire map of where work should/could be done.

    [​IMG]

    Mapping results:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    OK..here's my plan. If someone sees that I'm taking a wrong turn, please do say something.

    Gorilla Glue work:

    1.0) Use Gorilla Glue to adhere the delaminated ABS skin to the roof foam substrate.

    1.1) Need to determine if G_Glue can be thinned with xylenes and still cure properly..I believe it can, but will run a test today to find out.

    1.2) Determine whether xylenes ("xylol" in consumer stores) is a solvent for ABS. I doubt it is, but a simple test will find out. If it is..then I'll try mineral spirits as the Gorilla Glue thinner and check whether MS is a ABS solvent.

    1.3) I've read, I believe in this thread, that folks suggest leaving delaminated, though undamaged/no cracking, areas alone rather than opening them up. I'm inclined to drill holes in the undamaged delaminated areas, squirt a small amount of water in and massage it throughout the bubble, inject thinned G_Glue in using a glue syringe, massage it throughout the bubble, let the G_Glue cure. My rationale for this is that a delaminated area will only get worse..might just as well stop it where it is with the hope that it won't continue to propagate.

    1.4) All areas getting treatment described in 1.3 will be covered with 2 inch painters tape to allow the mess to be removed easily after glue cure.

    1.5) Large delaminated areas may need multiple holes drilled in and multiple glue injections. Even smaller bubbles will probably need a relief hole opposite the glue injection hole.

    MEK/ABS GOO work:

    2.0) Prepare a 1:1 solution of ABS pellets and MEK

    2.1) Dremel out the cracks into a V and drill holes at the end of every crack point.

    2.2) Tape surround areas as needed to limit the mess & dissolving good areas of the top.

    2.3) Fill in the cracks and glue injection holes with MEK/ABS solution.

    2.4) Let dry and sand smooth.

    Grizzly Grip work:

    3.0) Next spring..I doubt I'll get it done this year. The camper will be stored outside in the Wisconsin winter with a 65% shade cloth 'tarp' over it. It's stored like this year around. Shade cloth is highly breathable and just keeps the sun off the top. I'd think the repaired roof is waterproof at this point and the Grizzly Grip is partially structural, and mostly a cosmetic add.
     
  12. Yukon Joe

    Yukon Joe 2002 Colman Niagara

    128
    1
    Sep 6, 2014
    @fishboat - sounds like a solid plan to me. I fixed my cracks, I didn't even think to do a knock test to find delaminated locations.

    I would skip step 2.2. I don't think it is necessary. I would replace step 2.2 with wiping crack area with MEK.

    I would also repeat step 2.3 as necessary for areas that may require more than one application. Putting the goo into a small disposable aluminum pan and using tongue depressers for application worked well for me.

    Also, if your goo is viscosit enough, you really won't need to sand smooth afterwards. Especially if you plan to cover with Grizzly Grip. You may still see the repair area under the GG, but I don't think is a huge deal.

    Good luck.
     
  13. GregMech

    GregMech New Member

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    Oct 13, 2014
    I have a '97 Coleman Cheyenne. I have tried the MEK and Koolseal methods to fix the cracks but was never happy with the results. This Spring I did the Grizzly Grip option and have been extremely happy thus far. Everything sealed up well and a very hard surface was formed. Several trips and no wear.
     
  14. Campercari

    Campercari New Member

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    Sep 2, 2016
    Since you're all Coleman experts I am going to post here I'm considering purchasing a model with an immaculate interior but this is what the roof looks like am I getting in over my head?
     

    Attached Files:

  15. jnc

    jnc Welcome from New Hampshire

    1,213
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    Oct 1, 2014
    If I were you I would look at some of the treads for Coleman roof repairs than you will know what that entails and the other option is to go and build a custom top. I will be building a top myself this winter. I choose to build so that I can make the roof taller to accommodate a regular size mattress.

    Good Luck
     
  16. rivergirl

    rivergirl New Member

    1
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    Oct 22, 2016
    How do you remove the rubber seal on a Coleman Fleetwood Bayside Pop Up and what do you use to put the new one on?
     
  17. jumpoff

    jumpoff I'm in a camping state of mind

    1,374
    61
    Nov 3, 2015
    North East Florida
    If you mean the rubber roof seal you might be able to just pull it off with your hands like I did mine. I would use a margin trowel or a putty knife if I encountered any resistance. Are you just replacing the seal or are you redoing the whole top ?
     
  18. jdamiano

    jdamiano New Member

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    Nov 27, 2016
    The roof on my camper failed about 8 years ago. I went over the plastic with Peel and Seal. I didn't remove the AC and only did the top. Held up great but wrinkly install working around the AC. The plastic de-laminated bad so i decided to redo it this weekend. All the plastic pulled right off. AC came off easily for a much cleaner install. I used a 36 inch and 18 inch roll. I went down and back up the inside about an inch. The pictures show before i finished. Corners are a little wrinkly but no way around it. Almost looks factory and i know it will hold up based on my last repair. about 200 for the Peel and Seal and 120 for the new main seal.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. jumpoff

    jumpoff I'm in a camping state of mind

    1,374
    61
    Nov 3, 2015
    North East Florida
    Hey thanks for coming up with another good alternative to repair the ABS roof. How long did it take you to cover your whole roof with Peel and Seal ?
     
  20. jdamiano

    jdamiano New Member

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    0
    Nov 27, 2016
    Putting it on is only about an hour with 2 people. One roll of the 18 inch wide is just enough to do the sides and the 36 inch roll is plenty for the top. I left a space in the center and cut 3 12 inch by 36 pieces to cover it. To do it right though spend the few hours it took to strip the ABS and prep the roof. I used Bondoc to fill any flaws and blended the place the ABS can't be removed at the latches. If you have an AC you have to remove it to get it right. If you take your time and do it right it really looks factory.
     

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