New 12 volt system install

Discussion in 'Power - Site Power/Batteries/Generators/Solar' started by Lagman, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. Lagman

    Lagman Member

    40
    1
    Sep 29, 2016
    Bucks County, PA
    The simple question is always which battery? I just want to do it right the first time. Maybe I'm over thinking it but, I'd appreciate the input from those who have had the know how and experience. I have no battery on the Dutchmen 1008D voyager now. The wires are at the tongue but I guess it was an option. My plan is to set up for boondocking with some site stays. There a cs2000 converter for the house in there now, I'd like to try and save it, works fine now. I'd like to run a 12v feed to that as well, just use a switch to go back and forth if needed.
    I have a Samlex 150s, 1500 watt inverter that I want to use, I have the MP series 17 200 amp breaker, 2/0 cable and all the connectors. Should I use a set of 6 volt Trojan deep cycle at 225ah each or go for the monster 12 volt Trojan J185h 225ah? Or is there a better high ah source that someone has or is using. Iplan to install it under the seat at the forward dinette. I will have a 3800 watt Yamaha genny for charging when needed. Will it take longer to charge the 2-6 volts or the big 12 volt? Their tech support was a little hesitant and said 2-3 hours for the 6's to bring it up with a 20a charger same with 12v.
    If some could give me a course to steer on this I'd appreciate it. Trip starts in 40 days so it shouldn' take long. Sorry for the long post, just trying to get all my info in it. Batteries...
    Thanks for the help
    Jim
     
  2. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

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    May 21, 2015
    Just get this out of the way, flooded lead acid batteries, which includes both you listed above, emit gasses that are both corrosive and flammable. When used in an enclosed space they need to be in a sealed box and vented to the outside. IMO, the best location for your batteries is on the trailer tongue.

    The battery wires on the tongue should already feed to the fuse panel located at the converter and should already be connected to the converter unless someone has disconnected them.

    The only reason to go with the 12 volt over the two 6 volts is tongue space. The 12 volt does have a much smaller footprint than a two sixes but you also have to consider it's height, and how that will work with the tongue jack, etc.

    The answer to your other questions is "It depends." How long it takes to recharge is a direct relation to depth of discharge and rate of charge. If you discharge those 125s to 50% you'll need to restore 110 to 120 amps to the battery to get to full charge. If you could actually force 20 amps per hour back into the battery it would take 5 1/2 hours. But at that time you'll probably be at 80% of charge and it will take as long again to push in the remaining 40 amps.

    My question is, what are you planning to run off of that inverter.
     
    DJS12354 likes this.
  3. Lagman

    Lagman Member

    40
    1
    Sep 29, 2016
    Bucks County, PA
    Thanks Steve. I was onna cut some ports in the wall or leave the basement door open for charging time. The inverter will probably do TV, small microwave and maybe a coffee pot. The tongue area lost some width for a bike rack install so I only have abou 7 1/2" to spare between that and the tanks for that config with boxes, too tight there.
     
  4. SteveP

    SteveP Active Member

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    May 21, 2015
    I'd recommend forgetting about the inverter and running the genny when you want to use the microwave. Get a stove top percolator, pour over or french press for coffee and a 12 volt television. Typically inverters are 80% efficient or less, which means for every 5 amps you use you are throwing one away. They're also a parasitic drain on the system even when not being used.
     
  5. Lagman

    Lagman Member

    40
    1
    Sep 29, 2016
    Bucks County, PA
    I got it on the parisitic drain that's why I have the trip/reset breaker. Darn genny is little too noisy and a hassle. Im just in it for the TV or laptop. May have to get a custom box for the front at 7" battery width on the 6 volt.
     
  6. speckhunter80

    speckhunter80 Well-Known Member

    How many days will you be off grid? How many amps of power will you need each day?
     
  7. rabird

    rabird Howdy!

    6,140
    87
    Mar 3, 2006
    TX
    I'd use costco or sams club 6vs, Them and the higher priced trojans should last many years if properly cared for, I'm betting you won't do that so go with the cheaper ones, especially for a learner pair!

    20A is not quite 10% charge/capacity. I'd want something bigger up to the max of my generator to limit generator time. FULL charge takes hrs, FULLLY charge weekly (find utility power and charge overnight), between full charge charge as best ya can. Finding a charger that will charge to 14.8v is difficult but the idea is to charge @ a constant current till batt = 14.8v and then it will taper over the next 2-3 or more hrs to FULL. Learn about hydrometer and equalize. the 6v will be easier to piss ant and it don't make much difference since they have the same capacity.

    http://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/battery-maintenance/

    A common practice in generator limited areas is to charge during the 2 hr window and let solar finish the job.

    Math
    20A x 3hrs is 60ah.

    Rough math, 100 ah depleted from a 200 ah batt bank, charge @ 10% of capacity or 20A rate. Start at 50% State of charge (SoC)

    4.5 hrs (~90 ah) gets ya to ~85% SoC as battery voltage rises to 14.8v.
    14.8v held constant as charge current tapers from 20A to 2A (another 2-3 hrs).

    110-120% ah needed to return 100ah depleted.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  8. Lagman

    Lagman Member

    40
    1
    Sep 29, 2016
    Bucks County, PA
    Thanks for replies again! I'm picking up 2 of the Trojan 105's tomorrow, got them for $134.50. Once I get them I'll have to make a box for the tongue (pretty crowded with the rack and tanks) for them, switces etc. I guess keeping the in the basement under the seat isn't a good idea so that's my only other option. I was trying to keep them as close to the inverter as possible cable wise, but with tongue mount it will need 3' to the circuit breaker and maye a foot to the inverter.
    With price of some of the CG around some areas I'll decide if we headed off grid. No more than 3-5 days.
    I'll be in the keys (Bahai Honda) for ten then have a 6 day lag till I dock at another park further north.
    Have to plan that still that out. Maybe there's
    an off grid in South Fla somewhere? Thanks again
     
  9. roybraddy

    roybraddy Well-Known Member

    1,101
    201
    Mar 23, 2016
    King George, Virginia
    Be aware your POPUP trailer may require an 'on-board 12VDC battery' to operate the Electric brakes if installed in the event the trailer becomes disconnected from your truck when being towed over public roads. This is a DOT Safety Requirement.

    This doesn't necessarily mean you have to use your trailer battery for this requirement but since the trailers have the 12VDC system it is most often used for this requirement.

    Just something to check with your local DMV folks about to know if your trailer requires to have such a thing...

    Roy Ken
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Lagman

    Lagman Member

    40
    1
    Sep 29, 2016
    Bucks County, PA
    Yeh no brakes here. I did upgrade from 2200# to 3500# with axle under and 3000# worth of springs.
     
  11. Fbird

    Fbird Member

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    Sep 10, 2017
    Ferndale MI
    any trailer with a 3000lb axle or higher must have brakes with a break away switch.
     
  12. Lagman

    Lagman Member

    40
    1
    Sep 29, 2016
    Bucks County, PA
    Yep, true but I'm still under the 2200# and no need to change the registration. Upgrade was just for the height 6"
     
  13. Fbird

    Fbird Member

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    21
    Sep 10, 2017
    Ferndale MI
    if there's a tag on the axle it doesn't matter how its registered. Ohio taught me that lesson the hard way. mine originally had a 2400 pound axle but was upgraded to a 3000 pound for the ground clearance. now it did take a prick of an officer, they assume any trailer with 14 inch or larger tires have a 3000 pound or larger axle.
     
  14. Lagman

    Lagman Member

    40
    1
    Sep 29, 2016
    Bucks County, PA
    What tag? I stayed with the 13" rubbers. Replace new axle for braked one? Nah.. Im good. How bout than Trojan 6 volts batteries? Yay or nay? What say you all?
     
  15. rabird

    rabird Howdy!

    6,140
    87
    Mar 3, 2006
    TX
    Too hard to find, be nice to them and they will last a long long time.


    let's not get carried away, even DOT uses gross weight not axle rating, and DOT does not apply to us non commercial vehicles.

    ยง393.42 Brakes required on all wheels.
    (b) Exception.
    (3) Any semitrailer or pole trailer (laden or unladen) with a gross weight of 1,361 kg (3,000 pounds) or less which is subject to this part is not required to be equipped with brakes if the axle weight of the towed vehicle does not exceed 40 percent of the sum of the axle weights of the towing vehicle.

    My trailer's axle weight (well the entire trailer) was less then 40% of the sum of the axle weights of the tow vehicle and therefore if commercial I would be exempt from required brakes. State requirements locally are even higher.
     
  16. Fbird

    Fbird Member

    78
    21
    Sep 10, 2017
    Ferndale MI
    I have Trojan 12-agm which is a 140ah which serves my needs. I would recommend their solar industrial line. I use them at the house and the performance is phenomenal.
     
  17. JimmyM

    JimmyM Well-Known Member

    1,273
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    Jun 5, 2014
    Boston, MA
    T-105s are great batteries and last a long time if properly cared for. I went with 2 Sam's club (Duracell, East Penn) GC2s. I figured the more expensive T-105s weren't worth the price since there's too much opportunity for things to go wrong (unexpected deep discharge, temperature extremes, etc) that might shorten their life. Better to kill a pair of $87 batteries in 3 years versus $150 batteries in 4 or 5.

    Good move placing them on the tongue.

    L16s are like tall GC2 but have a much greater capacity. And WAY higher cost. I think I saw $370 each somewhere.
     
  18. xvz12

    xvz12 Active Member

    330
    106
    Apr 6, 2017
    New Plymouth, ID
    I worked as a golf cart mechanic (yes, there is such a job...lol) for nearly 10 years, & the only brand of battery we would sell was Trojan. We had tried other brands, but the Trojans seemed to give longer run times, & last longer than other brands, plus their warranty service was top notch. The clientele we had wasn't interested in cost, they just wanted their cars to work, NOW, lol. This was nearly 25 years ago, so i don't know if it still holds true, I'm told there are only 2-3 manufacturers any more, & all our batteries come from them, just labelled for the different brands, but given what I've experienced, when I change out my pup batteries, the replacements will be Trojan T-105s. YMMV.
     
  19. JimmyM

    JimmyM Well-Known Member

    1,273
    58
    Jun 5, 2014
    Boston, MA
    If cost were no object, but still within reason, I'd have Trojan T-145s or L16s. I've done a lot of research and Trojans are workhorses when you care for them properly. I can also swear by East-Penn/Deka batteries (They make the Sam's club Duracells). I had a pair of East-Penn/Deka 9C12s on my previous pup. They lasted 10 years with a TrueCharge40 marine charger connected whenever it was parked. On 1 or 2 occasions per year I drew them down to 10% SoC. Still lasted 10 years.

    But I suspect a pair of Sam's club GC2s will treat you very well when considering AH/$. I'm on my first year with mine. Over the winter I'll keep them on a 5A battery tender on the camper.
     
  20. Lagman

    Lagman Member

    40
    1
    Sep 29, 2016
    Bucks County, PA
    Great ratings! Thankd
     

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