2007 Fleetwood Highlander Niagara Whiffle Tree Issue

[BenCampin93]

Sup camper wizards. Longtime lurker, first time poster. You guys have been great with all of your tutorials and how-to’s. I have learned a lot and fixed a lot of issues based on your work.

I have a high wall pop up with a ball bearing type whiffle tree. Manual lift. I’ve bought the camper cheap knowing it had some lift issues and I’ve gone through lubricating all the usual suspects, as well as replaced a worn clutch plate, replaced the spring, washers and spacers in the drive hub, new drive shaft, adjusted the chain tension, and installed the correct thrust bearing. The previous owner had installed an incorrect bearing which somehow was working, don’t know how. I currently have no problem spinning the whiffle tree when there is no weight on it and the upper assembly does the same. But when it’s all together and it starts to lift I can feel metal on metal grinding. The roof raises fully but when it gets to the top it gets increasingly difficult. Also putting it down, it’s jumpy and it takes some finesse to get it down (alternately raising and lowering to work it down.) I have had virtually the whole mechanism apart including the lifter arms (broke a cable, short version is I’m an idiot.) so I know it’s not hung up or off track. The only issue I can find at this point is that the plastic nubs on the bottom of the whiffle tree that ride on the cover plate are gone. It looks like metal on metal. I can see that it is scratching the metal pan.

My question is two fold. First, am I on the right track here or do I have other issues as well? I’m getting tired of finding yet another worn part each time I put this back together. I have no previous experience with these things but I’ve learned a lot from this forum as well as from the diagrams, but they are hard to see some details on like these nubs so I’d like so reassurances that this is my last issue.

Secondly, do I have any options to fix this besides buying a new whiffle tree? I found them for 200 plus shipping and I’m cringing because mine doesn’t seem to have any play in it and otherwise seems fine, but I’ll bite the bullet if I have to.

 

[jmkay1]

I could be wrong but I thought I found a lift diagram on colemanpopupparts.com there was a section of manuals and I believe I found it there. Unfortunately other than that I cannot help you. hopefully someone else my come around with some further guidance.

 

[DanR]

On my one pup the roof side boards are bad. The one side was bad enough that the lift arms weren’t quite perpendicular to the frame anymore. This made it hard to go up and down at times. Just another idea for you to check.

 

[Sjm9911]

Coleman® & Fleetwood

www.popupportal.com

If you go through the manual library , there is a lift system guide. Hope it helps.

 

[BenCampin93]

DanR, can you explain a little more about what you mean by bad side boards?

 

[DanR]

DanR, can you explain a little more about what you mean by bad side boards?

The side of the roof where the lift arms bolt to. My roof sags so bad that the lift arms are leaning in towards each other.

 

[Raycfe]

Double check all your pulleys, they have little bearings in them. As for your buttons ......... just something off the wall a nylon screw in the holes or fashion something out of a hard plastic chair leg guide (that goes on a chair leg to make it guide around the floor)

 

[BenCampin93]

So my roof seems to be in good condition. I have cracked corner caps, probably from someone shutting it "too tight", but I have caulked those shut as a temporary measure. Otherwise no sag or anything.

I checked all of the pulleys and lift assemblies and I sprayed them all down with silicone based lube from WD-40. Little quieter, but still gritty and grinding.

So I bought a little cutting board, it was about 1/8" thick and I cut out a little shoe to go on the bottom of the whiffle tree. Then I cleaned the whiffle tree and applied a Plastic Bonder from JB Weld and clamped on my "shoe". I was concerned that I wouldn't have enough clearance with the cover plate, but this was not an issue. I ran the lift several times and I still have the same issue. I did verify that the whiffle tree is moving freely on the cover plate without digging in any more by pulling the cover plate back off. So I'm good there, but it wasn't my issue.

So, I took my cordless drill and I put the lifter adapter on it and I crawled underneath so I could look at the mechanism with the cover off while I ran the the lift with the drill.

FOR THE INEXPERIENCED... my camper is a 2007 and has braces running between the frame rails so the cover plate is not structural in my case. Some models are so for anyone reading this later on, double check what yours is. Some don't have the braces and when you remove the cover plate you can bend things if you don't block it with 2x4's.

By doing this, I found the noise and vibration to be coming from the thrust bearing area. I should mention that this is my second thrust bearing that I purchased from beckley rv and I had to send the first one back because it felt gritty to me when I spun it. I did try to install the first one, but it wouldn't let the camper raise more than a little bit. Seemed when the bearing had the weight on it, it seized up. The second one I got seemed to feel better in the hand and it worked for a little while, but not any more.

I know that the bearing is facing correctly and it is the correct bearing. The lift repair manual says that the issues I'm having could be caused by thrust bearing misalignment. But it doesn't explain what that means. I played around with the bearing housing and the bearing channel plate and I think the bearing channel plate was upside down. Not sure, I had it apart a few times. Regardless the bearing assembly now seems to be unable to move up and down and it was definitely moving up and down before. The diagrams make it impossible to see which end goes up on those two pieces, but they definitely have an up and a down, the mounting holes are offset down so the plates reach up to the floor of the camper/frame respectively. I think this was part of the issue.

The bearing still doesn't seem to be "lubed" right and I sprayed a WD-40 specialist gel lube on the bearing, thrust nut, and frame. This seemed to really help, but I'm wondering if there is a bad batch of these bearings as there is defintely still noise coming from it. Not sure if you can repack them or if that would even help. Regardless, lubing it helped. I was careful to keep this off of the chain as I didn't want it to get into the upper assembly and onto the clutch.

Anyway, the camper is winterized, it goes up and down fairly reliably now without jumping. Its still stiff and gritty, but not as bad. I have some other house projects to attend to, but if I get more progress on it in the spring, I will post an update.

 

[dbbyleo]

If you haven’t watched these videos, take a look:

 

[dbbyleo]

I don’t know if those links to YouTube worked, but look up “How Coleman and Fleetwood lift system works” by “Pop up Camper Pro”. He also has a “Q&A” video you should watch. That may give you some insight.

 

[BriNat]

Hi, had the exact same issue on my 2005 Fleetwood Niagara. Almost exactly the same. We tried the same fixes and nothin worked.
So how did we fix it.... first a level your trailer. We use the bal leveler if needed. Do not put your stabilizer jacks down! Raise the roof first. I know it feels wrong but these trailers are very picky. Then put the stabilizer jacks down. Only do about a 1/4 of a turn. Then proceed to set up normally. It took a few times up and down to get it working but since we have changed our set up order we have no more problems. I hope this helps.

2005 Fleetwood Niagara TV: 2016 Toyota Highlander

 

[Paul Wielgosz]

Sup camper wizards. Longtime lurker, first time poster. You guys have been great with all of your tutorials and how-to’s. I have learned a lot and fixed a lot of issues based on your work.

I have a high wall pop up with a ball bearing type whiffle tree. Manual lift. I’ve bought the camper cheap knowing it had some lift issues and I’ve gone through lubricating all the usual suspects, as well as replaced a worn clutch plate, replaced the spring, washers and spacers in the drive hub, new drive shaft, adjusted the chain tension, and installed the correct thrust bearing. The previous owner had installed an incorrect bearing which somehow was working, don’t know how. I currently have no problem spinning the whiffle tree when there is no weight on it and the upper assembly does the same. But when it’s all together and it starts to lift I can feel metal on metal grinding. The roof raises fully but when it gets to the top it gets increasingly difficult. Also putting it down, it’s jumpy and it takes some finesse to get it down (alternately raising and lowering to work it down.) I have had virtually the whole mechanism apart including the lifter arms (broke a cable, short version is I’m an idiot.) so I know it’s not hung up or off track. The only issue I can find at this point is that the plastic nubs on the bottom of the whiffle tree that ride on the cover plate are gone. It looks like metal on metal. I can see that it is scratching the metal pan.

My question is two fold. First, am I on the right track here or do I have other issues as well? I’m getting tired of finding yet another worn part each time I put this back together. I have no previous experience with these things but I’ve learned a lot from this forum as well as from the diagrams, but they are hard to see some details on like these nubs so I’d like so reassurances that this is my last issue.

Secondly, do I have any options to fix this besides buying a new whiffle tree? I found them for 200 plus shipping and I’m cringing because mine doesn’t seem to have any play in it and otherwise seems fine, but I’ll bite the bullet if I have to.

Have you inspected all rolling items leading to the lift arms and the rollers in there as well? There are rollers near the front (for front arms), some just ahead of the tree (for rear arms), I believe at the front of the whiffle unit itself, and one at the base of each lift arm. I think there is also a roller (hard to see) somewhere up the lift arm.

If they appear ok then, with the unit up I would put 2x4s (about 42” if I remember right) from the frame to the roof to take the roof load off the enter mechanism and see if the issue still persists. With the roof load off the tree you can lower the arms via the whiffle tree and then pull the wires by hand to verify each moves the appropriate arm up nice and easy.

I also had a lift cable run outside of the holes in the frame and was actually grinding on the frame.

 

[BenCampin93]

G

I don’t know if those links to YouTube worked, but look up “How Coleman and Fleetwood lift system works” by “Pop up Camper Pro”. He also has a “Q&A” video you should watch. That may give you some insight.

Great videos, no dice unfortunately.

Hi, had the exact same issue on my 2005 Fleetwood Niagara. Almost exactly the same. We tried the same fixes and nothin worked.
So how did we fix it.... first a level your trailer. We use the bal leveler if needed. Do not put your stabilizer jacks down! Raise the roof first. I know it feels wrong but these trailers are very picky. Then put the stabilizer jacks down. Only do about a 1/4 of a turn. Then proceed to set up normally. It took a few times up and down to get it working but since we have changed our set up order we have no more problems. I hope this helps.

2005 Fleetwood Niagara TV: 2016 Toyota Highlander

Good point. Each time I've put it up, it has been on the flat of my driveway, and I did level it front to back, but i didn't really check it left to right. How picky is picky? Might have been off by an inch at most.

Have you inspected all rolling items leading to the lift arms and the rollers in there as well? There are rollers near the front (for front arms), some just ahead of the tree (for rear arms), I believe at the front of the whiffle unit itself, and one at the base of each lift arm. I think there is also a roller (hard to see) somewhere up the lift arm.

If they appear ok then, with the unit up I would put 2x4s (about 42” if I remember right) from the frame to the roof to take the roof load off the enter mechanism and see if the issue still persists. With the roof load off the tree you can lower the arms via the whiffle tree and then pull the wires by hand to verify each moves the appropriate arm up nice and easy.

I also had a lift cable run outside of the holes in the frame and was actually grinding on the frame.

The only thing I haven't been able to visually check is the pulley block in front of the whiffle tree. I really can't see it because it is blocked by the black tank. That said, I didn't think to unbolt the arms from the roof and run the whiffle tree. I may try this to verify I don't have a bent arm or something somewhere, but I am pretty confident at this point that my issue is with the thrust bearing lubrication/alignment. As I said before, playing around with the alignment plates and a little lubricant sprayed in there made a big difference.

 

[BriNat]

Mine is extremely picky. On a sprit level it HAS to be in the lines.