Differences in Lithium Batteries

[rob.mwpropane]

I have begun a search for a new battery. I currently don't need a whole lot, we mostly have hookups but sometimes boondock. I'd like to at least be able to run a full weekend without having to start the Inverter (I guess except for coffee).

There are so many and the prices vary all over the place. I understand I want one with BMS. I don't really care about heat, I'll just disconnect and bring inside over the winter. My PD converter is already capable of charging lithium. I also have a Victron smart shunt that I still need to install. I'm thinking 100ah? Renogy comes up a lot, but I see a lot offered on Amazon for almost 1/2 price. Any recommendations what people have used and are happy with?

I've also seen threads where folks build their own. I might do that at some point, but for right now I'm thinking easier to just drop one in. My LA battery is about done.

 

[Anthony Hitchings]

I bought our Renogy 100AH smart battery on sale via Lowes back in May 2021. No complaints, paid $700 for it back then. Back then the Bluetooth feature was an add-on (BT-2 module) for the battery. Now you can get it built in. Renogy apps work on Android and iOs.

 

[SteveP]

I recently bought EcoWorthy 50 AH batteries to replace the batteries in an electric riding mower at a lower price than the recommended replacement AGMs. Only about 2 months gone but they functioning great. Adequate protection from the BMS. Since you already have the Victron smart shunt you don't need all the bells and whistles of the Renogy. Ecoworthy has been a long time player in the solar market similar to Renogy. Their larger batteries are similarly discounted.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

I recently bought EcoWorthy 50 AH batteries to replace the batteries in an electric riding mower at a lower price than the recommended replacement AGMs. Only about 2 months gone but they functioning great. Adequate protection from the BMS. Since you already have the Victron smart shunt you don't need all the bells and whistles of the Renogy. Ecoworthy has been a long time player in the solar market similar to Renogy. Their larger batteries are similarly discounted.

Perfect example of why I'm so confused. EcoWorthy is $289, Renogy is like $200 more (looks like BMS but no BT). Why? Is it just marketing?

 

[SteveP]

Click the link and you'll see the EcoWorthy is deeply discounted from the manufacturer, don't know where you saw the price but I paid $169. You've already spent money for the Smart Shunt so you don't need the BT.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

Click the link and you'll see the EcoWorthy is deeply discounted from the manufacturer, don't know where you saw the price but I paid $169. You've already spent money for the Smart Shunt so you don't need the BT.

I think it's because 50Ah vs 100Ah?

 

[BikeNFish]

Do your research before deciding on which lithium battery you want. Converting to Lithium can get confusing because lithium batteries do not have the same charging parameters as lead acid batteries. In addition, there are many manufacturers and each manufacturer's battery has different dimensions, features and warranties.

All lithium batteries come with a BMS unless you are building it yourself.

Most Lithium 100ah batteries are built to Group 27 measurements, but there are a few companies that build them to Group 24 measurements. So, if you plan on putting it in your standard group 24 battery box, make sure it fits. Otherwise you will have to upgrade your box too.

The next thing you want is to make sure the battery is protected against high and low temperatures. If you charge a Lithium battery when the temperature of the battery is below 32 degrees F, you will permanently damage the battery. Getting a lithium battery with low temperature protection will protect the battery from damage in cold temps.

You also want to make sure you are charging the Lithium battery properly. To do this, you need to charge it to 14.4 to 14.6 volts. To do this, you need a lithium specific way to charge it. This is done with a lithium capable charger, a lithium capable converter, or a lithium compatible solar panel. You can charge a lithium battery with a lead acid or AGM charger, but you will only be able to charge the battery to 80-90% state of charge.

I have an Enduro 200ah Lithium battery in my TT. I chose this company because they are a US company and have great customer service. They were very responsive to my emails before and after I bought my battery. Enduro batteries are also 25% smaller than most of the lithium batteries out there. And yes, the 100ah Enduro lithium battery is built to a group 24 size and will fit in a standard group 24 battery box. Enduro batteries are not the cheapest out there but they do stand behind their batteries with a 10 year warranty.

One final consideration is that you may want to get a shunt to properly read your lithium battery's state of charge (SOC). Because lithium has a different charge profile, it is it is difficult to know exactly what a lithium battery's SOC is without a shunt.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

Do your research before deciding on which lithium battery you want. Converting to Lithium can get confusing because lithium batteries do not have the same charging parameters as lead acid batteries. In addition, there are many manufacturers and each manufacturer's battery has different dimensions, features and warranties.

All lithium batteries come with a BMS unless you are building it yourself.

Most Lithium 100ah batteries are built to Group 27 measurements, but there are a few companies that build them to Group 24 measurements. So, if you plan on putting it in your standard group 24 battery box, make sure it fits. Otherwise you will have to upgrade your box too.

The next thing you want is to make sure the battery is protected against high and low temperatures. If you charge a Lithium battery when the temperature of the battery is below 32 degrees F, you will permanently damage the battery. Getting a lithium battery with low temperature protection will protect the battery from damage in cold temps.

You also want to make sure you are charging the Lithium battery properly. To do this, you need to charge it to 14.4 to 14.6 volts. To do this, you need a lithium specific way to charge it. This is done with a lithium capable charger, a lithium capable converter, or a lithium compatible solar panel. You can charge a lithium battery to a with a lead acid or AGM charger, but you will only be able to charge the battery to 80-90% state of charge.

I have an Enduro 200ah Lithium battery in my TT. I chose this company because they are a US company and have great customer service. They were very responsive to my emails before and after I bought my battery. Enduro batteries are also 25% smaller than most of the lithium batteries out there. And yes, the 100ah Enduro lithium battery is built to a group 24 size and will fit in a standard group 24 battery box. Enduro batteries are not the cheapest out there but they do stand behind their batteries with a 10 year warranty.

One final consideration is that you may want to get a shunt to properly read your lithium battery's state of charge (SOC). Because lithium has a different charge profile, it is it is difficult to know exactly what a lithium battery's SOC is without a shunt.

I have a lithium capable converter. I have a Victron smart shunt.

I did not know about the group 24 vs 27... so that's good info. I plan to remove battery from camper in cold weather.

 

[BikeNFish]

I have a lithium capable converter. I have a Victron smart shunt.

I did not know about the group 24 vs 27... so that's good info. I plan to remove battery from camper in cold weather.

It sounds like you are going in the right direction.

I installed my lithium battery a month ago here in Minnesota. I didn't think I would have to worry about cold temperatures again until September at the earliest. However, last weekend while we were camping it got down to 38*F on two consecutive nights. It thought it was going to test my lithium's low temp protection.

I really like my Victron SmartShunt. I use my Victron app all time whether I'm camping or at home to monitor the battery.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

It sounds like you are going in the right direction.

I installed my lithium battery a month ago here in Minnesota. I didn't think I would have to worry about cold temperatures again until September at the earliest. However, last weekend while we were camping it got down to 38*F on two consecutive nights. It thought it was going to test my lithium's low temp protection.

I really like my Victron SmartShunt. I use my Victron app all time whether I'm camping or at home to monitor the battery.

Did you have to get the BT extended adapter or does it seem to work fine the way it is? I've heard some people complain about connectivity but I'm in a popup.. can't get much closer than that! So I'm curious.

What battery did you install? Edit: sorry, I did read your post... I got it

 

[rob.mwpropane]

A few questions since we're on this. I "think" the BMS would prevent the TV from charging the battery too much? Also, I am thinking that not all lithium batteries have the "freeze" protection built in... is that correct?

 

[BikeNFish]

Did you have to get the BT extended adapter or does it seem to work fine the way it is? I've heard some people complain about connectivity but I'm in a popup.. can't get much closer than that! So I'm curious.

What battery did you install? Edit: sorry, I did read your post... I got it

I have the Victron IP65 SmartShunt with bluetooth. Depending on how far away I am and on what side of the camper I'm standing, it has a bluetooth range of up to 30 feet. I park the TT next to the house so the app can access the shunt from inside the house.

 

[BikeNFish]

A few questions since we're on this. I "think" the BMS would prevent the TV from charging the battery too much? Also, I am thinking that not all lithium batteries have the "freeze" protection built in... is that correct?

The BMS will prevent the battery from overcharging, but it will not protect your tow vehicle's alternator from over heating if the BMS is calling for high voltage. This is usually not an issue unless the wiring from the tow vehicle is gauged so that it can carry a large load. On the other end, if you want to charge your lithium from your tow vehicle at a higher rate, you can install a DC to DC charger on your tow vehicle.

I have noticed that if my lithium battery is not fully charged while towing, it will pull quite a few amps from the tow vehicle's alternator. Another thing to worry about is to make sure you unplug the trailer lights from the tow vehicle if you are parked for an extended amount of time so that the battery does not pull a charge from the tow vehicle or you could drain the tow vehicles battery.

Not all lithium batteries have low temp protection to protect them from freezing. Some lithium batteries come with a self-heating option, but this will canonicalize the battery and could drain the battery as it tries to stay warm. I learned that once you start adding all of the options, the price of the battery starts to go way up. If the battery drains below 10volts or so, the BMS will shut down the battery. Then the battery will need a "jump" before it will take a charge again.

 

[rsdata]

i BOUGHT A dR pREPARE last fall and am Happy with it... search Dr Prepare on youtube for many reviews

there is a new version and an older version... older version did not get good reviews

 

[madster]

The low temperature thing is just for charging, most lithium batteries can discharge below freezing fine, battery specs will have temperature ranges for charge and discharge and storage. The heater (if it has one) runs from the charger power, not from the battery, to warm it up enough to charge. Many BMSes have protection to prevent charging below freezing if there is no heater, but cheaper batteries (like on Amazon) might not have this. I just learned all this in the last month shopping for a new battery.

 

[rmihalcin]

My son-in-law bought 2each 100amph Renogy with the bluetooth last year. Nice feature. Shows charging and discharging amps. Pretty cool. It's a good brand. One probably gets what they pay for.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

The BMS will prevent the battery from overcharging, but it will not protect your tow vehicle's alternator from over heating if the BMS is calling for high voltage. This is usually not an issue unless the wiring from the tow vehicle is gauged so that it can carry a large load. On the other end, if you want to charge your lithium from your tow vehicle at a higher rate, you can install a DC to DC charger on your tow vehicle.

I have noticed that if my lithium battery is not fully charged while towing, it will pull quite a few amps from the tow vehicle's alternator. Another thing to worry about is to make sure you unplug the trailer lights from the tow vehicle if you are parked for an extended amount of time so that the battery does not pull a charge from the tow vehicle or you could drain the tow vehicles battery.

Not all lithium batteries have low temp protection to protect them from freezing. Some lithium batteries come with a self-heating option, but this will canonicalize the battery and could drain the battery as it tries to stay warm. I learned that once you start adding all of the options, the price of the battery starts to go way up. If the battery drains below 10volts or so, the BMS will shut down the battery. Then the battery will need a "jump" before it will take a charge again.

The wiring I ran for my hitch is all pretty small stuff, nothing "upgraded" from what I got from etrailer. I will make sure the battery is charged before leaving for a trip (we only ever camp within 1-2 hours away anyway). For some reason I believe our van has an "upgraded" alternator (I think 220amp if that makes a difference). This is the SmartShunt that I have (but haven't installed yet).

 

[BikeNFish]

The wiring I ran for my hitch is all pretty small stuff, nothing "upgraded" from what I got from etrailer. I will make sure the battery is charged before leaving for a trip (we only ever camp within 1-2 hours away anyway). For some reason I believe our van has an "upgraded" alternator (I think 220amp if that makes a difference). This is the SmartShunt that I have (but haven't installed yet).

View attachment 91918

If you install your shunt in the battery box, make sure you block all of the battery box vents so that water won't get inside the box. Lithium batteries don't need to be vented, but your shunt is IP55 and not fully waterproof, so it needs to be somewhat protected from the elements.

IP55 = Limited protection from dust and low-pressure water jets from any direction.

I have seen some people build a separate waterproof box just for the shunt.

To waterproof my battery box, I used silicone on all of the vents, then duct taped the opposite side that I used the silicone. Then I blocked off as much of the remaining gaps between the box and the lid as I could. I also drilled a few small holes in the bottom of the box so that it water did get in, it has a place to drain out.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

If you install your shunt in the battery box, make sure you block all of the battery box vents so that water won't get inside the box. Lithium batteries don't need to be vented, but your shunt is IP55 and not fully waterproof, so it needs to be somewhat protected from the elements.

IP55 = Limited protection from dust and low-pressure water jets from any direction.

I have seen some people build a separate waterproof box just for the shunt.

To waterproof my battery box, I used silicone on all of the vents, then duct taped the opposite side that I used the silicone. Then I blocked off as much of the remaining gaps between the box and the lid as I could. I also drilled a few small holes in the bottom of the box so that it water did get in, it has a place to drain out.

I have a box installed where I was planning to put the shunt. I have not read about how close it needs to be to the actual battery? I think I can fit it in my little waterproof box (that houses the leveler).

You can see it here within ~ 3' of the battery;

 

[rob.mwpropane]

Dang I didn't even know they made an IP65 version... bummer. I would have paid the $10 extra