Differences in Lithium Batteries

[Anthony Hitchings]

My Renogy Smartbattery reports it's state of charge to the DC-Home app or via an optional plug in monitor.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

My Renogy Smartbattery reports it's state of charge to the DC-Home app or via an optional plug in monitor.

Is that done via BT or wifi?

 

[BikeNFish]

I have a box installed where I was planning to put the shunt. I have not read about how close it needs to be to the actual battery? I think I can fit it in my little waterproof box (that houses the leveler).

You can see it here within ~ 3' of the battery;

Use the largest gauge wire as you can for the shunt and it shouldn't be an issue. The less resistance the better.

Dang I didn't even know they made an IP65 version... bummer. I would have paid the $10 extra

Victron just came up with the IP65 version recently. I kind of stumbled upon it rather than knowing that it existed. I was lucky enough to "find" it before I ordered the IP55 version, so that's what I have. But I still made sure that it is protected from the elements. If it were me, I would put the IP65 in a box anyways. I wouldn't want my shunt exposed to the weather or theft. Outa sight, outa mind.

 

[Hilldweller]

PD converter and a Battleborn 100ah battery with smart heat. It's worked perfectly for the past two years camping 4 seasons.
200w solar for off-grid. I use the battery for the fridge while towing.
In fact, I'm still working on the first 20# bottle of propane from the dealership. 168 days camping in it so far.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

This is from the Dr. Prepared site... has me confused. It says there isn't "cold protection" but then goes on to say the battery shuts off when it's cold??

• Please notice that our battery doesn't have low-temperature protection! Low-temperature protection is that under the monitoring of BMS temperature sensor, the battery will stop charging during 23~32℉(-5~0℃) and stop discharging during -4~23℉ (-20~-5℃). The battery will reach -4℉(-20℃) only when the outdoor temperature is lower to -40~-22℉ (-40~-30℃), which means the function of low-temperature protection is not essential in actual use. And our lithium battery can be used in an emergency at extremely low temperatures.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

The above excert comes from their line of older batteries.. the newer stuff says they're out until Aug 15

 

[rob.mwpropane]

So after reading and reading and reading and weighing out the flashy name brand stuff with the generic batteries I think I've landed on either a Dr. Prepare model # DBT12100LFP-S48-G2-US. (Can't find it in stock). Or the Renogy RBT100LFP12-BT-W02W-G1-US. Renogy has all the same features and BT built in... if I went that route I guess I could just sell the SmartShunt? Really no point in having both....correct?

Both have temperature protection / sensor (shut off for both hot and cold). Dr. Prepare is $299, but out of stock. Renogy is $569.

Renogy claims to use the cells that auto manufacturers use? Is that a plus? Or really doesn't matter?

 

[rob.mwpropane]

Does anyone have any experience with Victron vs Renogy apps? It looks like neither one will save information? Like it doesn't track statistics or am I wrong?

Neither app in the playstore has good reviews. Renogy 2.6 stars vs Victron 3.5 stars

 

[bluespruce]

Does anyone have any experience with Victron vs Renogy apps? It looks like neither one will save information? Like it doesn't track statistics or am I wrong?

Neither app in the playstore has good reviews. Renogy 2.6 stars vs Victron 3.5 stars

I have the renogy app for my renogy 100AH battery and solar MPPT charger. Shows current stats but that’s it. Also, it disconnects From bluetooth every time I minimize the app. annoying To have to wait for it to reconnect.

i Have a Victron battery charger. plug in the wall and charge the battery. The app for that does save history of charges. At least a few charges as that’s all I’ve used it for. not sure what else it may do as I’ve used it very little so far.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

I have the renogy app for my renogy 100AH battery and solar MPPT charger. Shows current stats but that’s it. Also, it disconnects From bluetooth every time I minimize the app. annoying To have to wait for it to reconnect.

i Have a Victron battery charger. plug in the wall and charge the battery. The app for that does save history of charges. At least a few charges as that’s all I’ve used it for. not sure what else it may do as I’ve used it very little so far.

Appreciate that. Most of the bluetooth devices I have in the camper disconnect on closing... very annoying.

Some more information. It seems like Renogy is moving away from having BT built into the battery itself? The older batteries with BT are rated at 2000 cycles and have a 3 year warranty. The newer batteries (I'm assuming they're newer) do not come with BT and are rated at 4000 cycles with 5 year warranty.

Right now there is a sale to get the newer Renogy ONE Core with the newer battery for like an extra $60. Total is $560 (non heated battery). It looks like you have to have some type of subscription to be able to see any type of history... kind of a dick move if you ask me? Why can't that little hockey puck hold 6 months worth of history? That's a huge turnoff for me.

The newer batteries (again, I'm assuming newer) can come with a BT module that plugs in with 15' cord (that is included with the $560). They also come with a device to put the battery to sleep for storage.

 

[bluespruce]

Appreciate that. Most of the bluetooth devices I have in the camper disconnect on closing... very annoying.

Some more information. It seems like Renogy is moving away from having BT built into the battery itself? The older batteries with BT are rated at 2000 cycles and have a 3 year warranty. The newer batteries (I'm assuming they're newer) do not come with BT and are rated at 4000 cycles with 5 year warranty.

Right now there is a sale to get the newer Renogy ONE Core with the newer battery for like an extra $60. Total is $560 (non heated battery). It looks like you have to have some type of subscription to be able to see any type of history... kind of a dick move if you ask me? Why can't that little hockey puck hold 6 months worth of history? That's a huge turnoff for me.

The newer batteries (again, I'm assuming newer) can come with a BT module that plugs in with 15' cord (that is included with the $560). They also come with a device to put the battery to sleep for storage.

I think it was actually the other way around. I think they had the 4,000 cycle batteries first. Then went to the 2,000 cycle to get to a lower price point and maybe compete with lower priced batteries That had less cycles? I’m not 100% sure on that but if memory serves I think that is what happened. I have the 2,000 cycle version. We used our old popup camper maybe 30 nights a year at most and we’d have maybe a few cycles a day with charging and discharging and high use If we were dry camping. even if it’s only 1,000 cycles actual life I’m thinking ten year life span is decent and I’d have gotten my moneys worth out if it. I just didn’t see the need for 4,000 cycles.

full disclosure, this battery hasn’t seen a lot of use yet. It’s in a camper (not our old popup) I’m building in my shop. I have it hooked up and use it to power interior lights while I’m working in the camper. Then i‘ll charge with solar to see how that works. Then I charge off Shore Power or with a victron plug in charger. Mostly just trying to make sure everything is working and work out some of the kinks in the build. Time will tell if it’s a good battery and will last as long as I expect.

seems like there are lots of batteries out there for less. I took a little comfort in buying from a company that has been around at least a little while. Figuring if there is a problem id have a better chance of getting it resolved versus some made up flavor of the month brand on Amazon. but, I could be ring and the unknown brand may last just as long or longer. I didn’t have enough knowledge to know what Make one battery better or worse than another so I went with a more recognized and established brand and paid a little more.

 

[Sharpie]

I have begun a search for a new battery. I currently don't need a whole lot, we mostly have hookups but sometimes boondock. I'd like to at least be able to run a full weekend without having to start the Inverter (I guess except for coffee).

There are so many and the prices vary all over the place. I understand I want one with BMS. I don't really care about heat, I'll just disconnect and bring inside over the winter. My PD converter is already capable of charging lithium. I also have a Victron smart shunt that I still need to install. I'm thinking 100ah? Renogy comes up a lot, but I see a lot offered on Amazon for almost 1/2 price. Any recommendations what people have used and are happy with?

I've also seen threads where folks build their own. I might do that at some point, but for right now I'm thinking easier to just drop one in. My LA battery is about done.

We have Renogy and it works amazing. They do have some great sales on Renogy batteries direct from Renogy. And 100 ah is.what we use.

 

[Anthony Hitchings]

U don't need statistics on battery use. Just keep ene eye on charge level if running g a heavy load more than usual (heater fan). This is based on 2+ years with our 100AH battery andsolar panels.

 

[Patrick w]

Poo

This is from the Dr. Prepared site... has me confused. It says there isn't "cold protection" but then goes on to say the battery shuts off when it's cold??

• Please notice that our battery doesn't have low-temperature protection! Low-temperature protection is that under the monitoring of BMS temperature sensor, the battery will stop charging during 23~32℉(-5~0℃) and stop discharging during -4~23℉ (-20~-5℃). The battery will reach -4℉(-20℃) only when the outdoor temperature is lower to -40~-22℉ (-40~-30℃), which means the function of low-temperature protection is not essential in actual use. And our lithium battery can be used in an emergency at extremely low temperatures.

Poorly written. Their answer to cold protection is , "you don't need it you will never be outside using it at -22f"
In truth, even at ,28f, if your using the battery it will generate heat. As long as you discharge a bunch and immediately begin recharge, it would probably be fine.

 

[Hilldweller]

U don't need statistics on battery use. Just keep ene eye on charge level if running g a heavy load more than usual (heater fan). This is based on 2+ years with our 100AH battery andsolar panels.

Yeah, that's my method.
A daily check of level, occasional check on the charge controller during the day if I'm around.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

I think it was actually the other way around. I think they had the 4,000 cycle batteries first. Then went to the 2,000 cycle to get to a lower price point and maybe compete with lower priced batteries That had less cycles? I’m not 100% sure on that but if memory serves I think that is what happened. I have the 2,000 cycle version. We used our old popup camper maybe 30 nights a year at most and we’d have maybe a few cycles a day with charging and discharging and high use If we were dry camping. even if it’s only 1,000 cycles actual life I’m thinking ten year life span is decent and I’d have gotten my moneys worth out if it. I just didn’t see the need for 4,000 cycles.

full disclosure, this battery hasn’t seen a lot of use yet. It’s in a camper (not our old popup) I’m building in my shop. I have it hooked up and use it to power interior lights while I’m working in the camper. Then i‘ll charge with solar to see how that works. Then I charge off Shore Power or with a victron plug in charger. Mostly just trying to make sure everything is working and work out some of the kinks in the build. Time will tell if it’s a good battery and will last as long as I expect.

seems like there are lots of batteries out there for less. I took a little comfort in buying from a company that has been around at least a little while. Figuring if there is a problem id have a better chance of getting it resolved versus some made up flavor of the month brand on Amazon. but, I could be ring and the unknown brand may last just as long or longer. I didn’t have enough knowledge to know what Make one battery better or worse than another so I went with a more recognized and established brand and paid a little more.

That would be interesting if it was the other way around. Their website is really hard to try to find what the different options between batteries are. It's all so flashy, it's like they just want you to pick one. No rhyme or reason given between 2000 cycles vs 4000 cycles either.

We have Renogy and it works amazing. They do have some great sales on Renogy batteries direct from Renogy. And 100 ah is.what we use.

I wanted to go with Renogy, but the more I read the more it feels like a infomercial. Their new device the Renogy ONE Core has a bunch of options that if you don't have a subscription to will just keep popping up asking you to purchase one. I cut cable 15 years ago because I can't stand advertisements, the last thing I need is something on the wall while camping telling me to purchase something.

I know I could purchase just the battery, but that type of business model just really turns me off. Might just be me. I'm sure their batteries are great. From the reviews that I read online with people going all in with Renogy it seemed they had a really difficult time with any kind of support for their other devices (and again, big thumbs down to always getting you to purchase something).

U don't need statistics on battery use. Just keep ene eye on charge level if running g a heavy load more than usual (heater fan). This is based on 2+ years with our 100AH battery andsolar panels.

I have never owned a lithium battery (like this). To be fair I never really paid attention to my current LA battery, I just know from experience with automobile LA batteries that it's starting to crap out and I'd like to take care of the new lithium battery. I'll probably be fine just knowing the current state of the new battery with the Victron shunt

Poo

Poorly written. Their answer to cold protection is , "you don't need it you will never be outside using it at -22f"
In truth, even at ,28f, if your using the battery it will generate heat. As long as you discharge a bunch and immediately begin recharge, it would probably be fine.

LOL... I agree, very poorly written. Dr. Prepared seems to have a good reputation and they do now sell a battery with cold protection, but currently it's out of stock. If it was in stock I would probably go that direction.

Yeah, that's my method.
A daily check of level, occasional check on the charge controller during the day if I'm around.

I am hoping the smart shunt is all I need (unless I go solar or something, but that's a bit later if I do).

For now it would be nice to only use the gen for AC and be able to connect an Inverter to the 100ah for all the other stuff and hopefully a pot of coffee? I have seen people do that with a 100ah battery on youtube.

I don't mind the generator except for in the morning... I would MUCH rather have a nice quiet morning while coffee was brewing.... run that thing later for AC and to charge. (I have a Westinghouse DF4500 that I use for the AC and to charge a little when boondocking)

Appreciate everyone's posts!

 

[Abe Froman]

I have a 206ah from SOK brand. Very high quality cells that are matched within 0.03v. It’s serviceable, has a great BMS with all sorts of protection and will handle a continuous 50a charge and a 100a discharge. Has a built in heat mat for low temp charging to boot. Do some research. A YouTuber named Will Prowse has a channel on solar and does a lot of battery testing.

 

[Robmoo]

Will Prowse knows his batteries and his solar. He buys these and tears them apart to check their build quality. You can't go wrong with a battery that he recommends.

The cheapest 100ah LiFePo4 that he recommends is $320. The SOK that he says is "bomb proof" is $570. Or you can go BattleBorn for $800.

They batteries will last the life of the camper.

LiFePO4 Batteries for Offgrid and Mobile Solar

The lithium batteries below are considered "Drop-in Lead Acid Replacement" because you can use them with standard 12/24/48 volt solar charge controllers/chargers/inverters and more. Simply hook them...

www.mobile-solarpower.com

 

[TSQ]

Does anyone have any experience with Victron vs Renogy apps?

Yes, I have used both. IMHO the Victron Energy app is roughly 1000x less frustrating.

I think it was actually the other way around. I think they had the 4,000 cycle batteries first. Then went to the 2,000 cycle to get to a lower price point and maybe compete with lower priced batteries That had less cycles?

Correct.

That would be interesting if it was the other way around. Their website is really hard to try to find what the different options between batteries are. It's all so flashy, it's like they just want you to pick one. No rhyme or reason given between 2000 cycles vs 4000 cycles either.

The newer 2000 cycle battery (w/BT) is built using prismatic cells. The older 4000 cycle battery is built with pouch cells.

I have the (older) 4000 cycle battery and have used it a fair bit. No complaints. It is paired with the wired remote display screen that does everything I need it to do - no external shunt required (but no bluetooth, which is OK because the Renogy app...).

Right now the battery is US$500:

12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery

Renogy's smart lithium iron phosphate lifepo battery enables auto-balance among parallel-connections. This 12v lithium ion battery suits for caravan or marine.

www.renogy.com

And the remote display is US$45:

Monitoring Screen for Smart Lithium Battery Series

The Renogy Monitoring Screen for Smart Lithium Battery Series is a high precision meter designed for Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery in off-grid energy storage systems.

www.renogy.com

For now it would be nice to only use the gen for AC and be able to connect an Inverter to the 100ah for all the other stuff and hopefully a pot of coffee? I have seen people do that with a 100ah battery on youtube.

We regularly use our ~950W electric kettle to boil water for tea, hot chocolate, dish washing, etc. I don't have a YouTube video but I do have a picture:

Note the battery monitoring screen (top) and Inverter/charger monitoring screen (bottom) just inside the door for easy monitoring and control. As long as your coffee maker draws less than 1000W virtually any 100AH LFP battery should run it.

I have a Victron Energy solar charger and a Victron Energy DC-DC charger for charging off the tow vehicle. Both have built in BT and work really well. They were bought to replace Renogy products. Nearly everything is installed in the aft dinette locker (above the axle):


We were basically camping off-grid for two months last summer with this setup.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

Yes, I have used both. IMHO the Victron Energy app is roughly 1000x less frustrating.

Correct.

The newer 2000 cycle battery (w/BT) is built using prismatic cells. The older 4000 cycle battery is built with pouch cells.

I have the (older) 4000 cycle battery and have used it a fair bit. No complaints. It is paired with the wired remote display screen that does everything I need it to do - no external shunt required (but no bluetooth, which is OK because the Renogy app...).

Right now the battery is US$500:

12V 100Ah Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery

Renogy's smart lithium iron phosphate lifepo battery enables auto-balance among parallel-connections. This 12v lithium ion battery suits for caravan or marine.

www.renogy.com

And the remote display is US$45:

Monitoring Screen for Smart Lithium Battery Series

The Renogy Monitoring Screen for Smart Lithium Battery Series is a high precision meter designed for Smart Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery in off-grid energy storage systems.

www.renogy.com

We regularly use our ~950W electric kettle to boil water for tea, hot chocolate, dish washing, etc. I don't have a YouTube video but I do have a picture:
View attachment 91990
Note the battery monitoring screen (top) and Inverter/charger monitoring screen (bottom) just inside the door for easy monitoring and control. As long as your coffee maker draws less than 1000W virtually any 100AH LFP battery should run it.

I have a Victron Energy solar charger and a Victron Energy DC-DC charger for charging off the tow vehicle. Both have built in BT and work really well. They were bought to replace Renogy products. Nearly everything is installed in the aft dinette locker (above the axle):




We were basically camping off-grid for two months last summer with this setup.

That is an awesome setup! Really clean. What do you do for AC?

I think I have the jist of just about everything, but what is the DC to DC charger from the TV? I know with my current setup it "should" charge from the TV? But maybe that wire is better suited for LA?

@Robmooi will have to check that guy out, thanks a lot for the info.

I have some time before I need to pull the trigger. All of our camping has hookups until fall, but I'm really glad I started this thread. You guys have already taught me a lot, so thank you!!!!!